- 25 -                                         
          We have said that the startup phase of a horse breeding activity            
          may be 5 to 10 years.  Engdahl v. Commissioner, supra.                      
          Petitioner had losses for 12 years.                                         
               Petitioner contends that this case is similar to Perry v.              
          Commissioner, T.C. Memo. 1997-417; Shane v. Commissioner, T.C.              
          Memo. 1995-504; Arwood v. Commissioner, T.C. Memo. 1993-352; and            
          Pirnia v. Commissioner, T.C. Memo. 1989-627, where we found that            
          taxpayers had a profit motive despite having a history of losses.           
          We disagree.  Those cases differ from this case for several                 
          reasons.  In Perry v. Commissioner, supra, the taxpayer had                 
          losses from 1986 to 1993 during the startup period and a profit             
          in 1994.  The taxpayers in Perry expected their land appreciation           
          to more than offset their losses.                                           
               The other cases cited by petitioner are also                           
          distinguishable.  In Shane v. Commissioner, supra, the taxpayer             
          had losses from 1986 to 1991 from racing the taxpayer's horses              
          but had profits in prior years.  He bought an inexpensive horse             
          in 1988 and made a profit, winning about $65,000 in 18 months.              
          He kept his costs low.  He stopped racing horses when it became             
          unprofitable and focused on breeding.  We found that he                     
          reasonably expected that his horses would increase in value.  His           
          1990 and 1991 losses occurred within 5 to 10 years of when he               
          started to breed horses.  Petitioners had considerably more                 
          income than the taxpayer in Shane who earned $42,000 in 1990 and            
          $38,000 in 1991 from sources not related to horses and had                  
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